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Price Upgrade 19$?

Im not much of a complainer. Actually i never complain. And Im not that kind of guy that would complain over a 19$ fee for upgrading to 2.0. But I have to say Im very dissappointed. I love what Shaun does. Great design work. Excellent ideas and awesome developpement. But paying 19$ for an upgrade. I think Ill pass. Sorry Shaun. If you can explain to me why i should buy this upgrade maybe Ill consider buying it but for now its on the top shelf and staying there.. love the whole design part of it.

Kind Regards, Andre Gagnon SeaGraphStudios.com

Posted on Jan 30, '07 at 01:46 pm

That’s totally a complaint.

Anyway, Shaun wrote about why he thinks the upgrade was worthwhile on his blog. Maybe check there.

Sam Brown
Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 30, '07 at 01:48 pm

And I’m sure the many many other people that have purchased the upgrade show that it really is worth it.

It definitely is worth the upgrade. Sure, it’s not an entirely new product, but the updates definitely deserve a new version. If you’re happy with Mint 1, stick with it, otherwise look at the $19 as a great investment. I’d rather pay that than spend potentially hundreds of hours creating the same thing.

Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 30, '07 at 06:28 pm

I think for the list of updates it’s a good deal. Especially if running a site is your hobby. As Mr. Haugland stated, crafting the same on your own will cost you more than $20 of your time. If it’s your business, you shouldn’t think twice.

Definitely complaining…if it’s not worth 19 bucks…don’t pay it. Really.

Weirdly, it’s the design itself that’s completely putting me off Mint 2. In comparison to the original it seems very empty and clinical, and there’s also less white space between the lines which makes it seem a bit clumped together. In fact, the whole design in general seems a lot less inspired than the original and more like it came off the Web 2.0 bandwagon express. I’m tempted to say the original with darkened greys would have been the perfect redesign.

I read that Mint 2 comes with two themes; is this true, and if so, does one of them look less boring than the one in the demo?

Other theme is just darker … I like the default more.

It’s very different than the first … but overall I’ve been happy with the upgrade, especially since it’s a great tool, and 2.0 (should) be much more useful powerful than the first, with API enhancements (thus more Pepper) and add-ins like Bird Feeder.

Posted on Jan 30, '07 at 11:22 pm

Personally I wasn’t wowed by v2’s design any more than v1. But the bottom line is Mint is an incredible product and I simply wanted to support an artist making art. Software like this doesn’t come around often.

But, of course, it’s your prerogative to not upgrade.

Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 30, '07 at 11:54 pm

Have you seen this mod to Mint 2? mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/01/oh-minty-day

Being brand new to Mint as of yesterday, I’m not sure if I’m well qualified to justify either the pros or cons of a $19 upgrade cost, but I do believe an analogy is in order.

What possesses someone who drives a 2000 vehicle that gets the job done to look into getting a newer model? Furthermore, what possesses someone who drives a 2006 to get the 2007? It’s all a matter of preference. My 2000 Chrysler Cirrus (I know, I know…) gets the job done and I’m happy with it. Sure I’d rather have something newer and maybe in a different colour, but I’m happy with what I have and it works. However, at no time would I fault Chyrsler with coming out with another model next year.

Anywho, I’m mighty happy with Mint 2. Wish I hopped on board earlier to get a taste of the original flavour…

My first reaction, I was quite disapointed, when I saw that there was 19$ upgrade, but when I saw the new interface and upgraded features, it didn’t matter anymore.

Although I haven’t upgraded yet (still need to finish my new design), I definitely going to. (hopefully the end of the month)

BTW, how long will this 19$ upgrade be available for Mint v1 users?

See, that mod is much better. I can’t believe those lovely green green stripes were removed to begin with; they were one of the most alluring aspects of the old design and tied in well with the name.

As for the analogy, I see your point (although I’d have probably gone with the contextually closer Windows), but I think the dispute largely comes from Shaun not at any point indicating he’d charge per version of Mint. When most of us bought Mint, we thought we were buying Mint — not version one of Mint. And don’t tell me the difference is significant enough to be compared to upgrading from Windows 98 to XP because it’s really not that much better on a day-to-day basis, Peppers included in the mix.

But yes, it is my prerogative. And as a result I won’t be upgrading to Mint 2, as not only paying $30 for the initial version but then $19 for this upgrade and those in the future is something I just can’t justify for what is a relatively low-level script. After a few versions I’d be paying an equal price to the likes of vBulletin, which is blatantly infinitely more complex. Mint seems to be aimed at trendies, designers, and bloggers above all else, but the audience (which usually has fairly non-monetised sites) is being bled dry.

Just an opinion, of course. You guys are free to pay $19 (or more) for each version Shaun considers a major update for all your sites, but for someone like me who largely runs sites for fun outside of work it’s just too much — especially considering I run a bunch of them. Perhaps if it were more squarely aimed at the business market where such prices are justifiable there’d be less grumbling in the blogosphere.

Sorry to bring negativity here, but the prospect of paying the same as I do for almost half a year of web hosting just for statistics on one of my hobby sites is a totally saddening prospect, and as far as value for money goes I’m not convinced once you factor free alternatives into the equation, one of which I’ll be going with for my future projects.

Actually Shaun stated quite a few times on the forum that incremental upgrades were free but a major revision change (1.0 -> 2.0) would have a price attached.

Sam Brown
Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 31, '07 at 05:51 am

I just cant justify for what is a relatively low-level script. After a few versions Id be paying an equal price to the likes of vBulletin, which is blatantly infinitely more complex.

Are you sure?

As for the analogy, I see your point (although Id have probably gone with the contextually closer Windows)

Actually, I’d have gone with Mac OS X. Mint 1 & Mint 2 have vast differences but are essentially working from the same codebase. However, the added extras you get in the upgrade are well worth it. Same applies when upgrading from OSX 10.3 to 10.4, 10.5 etc.

Yeah, the price is in the same region as far as initial cost goes. There’re probably less expensive examples that’d be more suitable, but the fact is that if we’re going to be paying $19 every time Shaun considers an update major, it’ll mount up — especially for those who run multiple sites. $100 for just a few, bearing in mind we’re bearing the server resource load? Yeah, okay.

And Ginger, fair enough, but the fact is that while buying there was no indication you’re only purchasing the current version and won’t be entitled to updates that Shaun considers major. Granted, a small clause was thrown into the FAQ later into 2006, but that seems a bit dodgy to me.

If Mint 2 were dramatically different and introduced lots of exciting new features it’d be fine, but the fact is it isn’t and doesn’t. A better strategy would have been to allow loyal adopters of the previous version to have it for free, and then work on using their word of mouth and the new presentation to attract new customers. Instead, the strategy seems to be to sap the current audience for all it’s worth which is more likely to cause disgruntled users, plenty of whom I’ve come across.

But never mind. What’s done is done.

I actually didn’t read the FAQ when I bought it so I can’t say anything beyond that :)

I was quite happy to pay $19 for an upgrade though and didn’t think twice. Then again, that could be why I’m not a rich man…..

Thinking about it, I think the reason I’m a little bitter is because the first update after I bought Mint happened to be this one. Although I think my points still stand, the best way of easing poor hearts like mine would have been either a longer grandfather period or a lower upgrade price. The price being paid for the upgrade is disproportionate to the price of buying the whole thing afresh, as there certainly isn’t a 60% increase in value (again, factoring Peppers into the equation).

I do have a degree of understanding as this is the first major upgrade and Shaun has nothing to base the experience on, but I think better treatment of past customers would have gone a long way. Real world companies often bend over backwards to ensure every last customer is happy, even if it means being less feisty with pricing.

While I know Mint has a loyal user base who are happy to be vocal in its defence, this kind of repeated steep pricing is going to drive the product further into a niche as only people with money pouring out of their arse or trendy designers will bother with it as long as free (even if less capable) alternatives like FeedBurner and w3counter exist — especially considering you have to pay per site, which is without a doubt my biggest issue with the software considering the maintenance costs to Shaun are zero whether I run it on one or 50 sites. But then again, maybe limiting appeal is Shaun’s plan?

Sam Brown
Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 31, '07 at 08:34 am

I think better treatment of past customers would have gone a long way.

While I do try to understand where you are coming from as a recent Mint user, but I purchased Mint in October 2005.

Apart from the point releases their hasn’t been a big upgrade since ‘05. Personally, I think the upgrade is well wroth it. If however, I had just purchased my first Mint license at the end of ‘06 I can see why you may be a little hesitant.

Posted on Jan 31, '07 at 08:38 am

Ryan, that’s exactly my issue as well.

It is a fine bit of software but I can’t justify spending $95 to upgrade five hobby sites. The per-domain pricing when I originally bought was annoying, but since I bought each license separately, spread out over a couple of years at that, it was tolerable.

But per-domain upgrade pricing for something that has no extra support costs, grates a bit. That coupled with the price being 2/3 of a new user license and the very short grandfather interval grates more. The fact that I bought my fifth license on Dec 29, 2006 grates a lot.

A photoshop upgrade is less than a third of the cost of a full version and you know that it is coming out WAY ahead of time so the grandfather duration is irrelevant.

I’m sure everyone is just going to say “cheap bastard” and “you don’t have to upgrade”. Blah, blah. I already paid for five licenses (no pirate here). $150 is enough.

And now for the rest of time I have to stare at the “update available” badge on all five of my Mint Widgets in Dashboard.

Yep. Purchasing a copy of one Mint is one thing, but when you run multiple sites (as any passionate web developer is likely to) it becomes downright extortion. The only thing I’m paying for is permission to use it on another site, which I find fairly poor considering the non-public nature of Mint (making an analogy to forum licenses unusable).

I myself bought the upgrade, but was quite disappointed with the price. $19, when someone can buy it new for $30? I can’t really justify it.

Especially since, in my opinion the only real difference is the interface improvements. The other “changes” are nearly all simple performance improvements and changes that I would have expected in a 1.xx patch.

The additional peppers are cool, but the functionality already existed in third party peppers. Due to this, I feel Shaun let down the developers who worked so hard, only to have their creations rendered irrelevant.

I bought it anyway as if I had stayed on 1.x, I doubt Shaun would have provided us with additional improvements to it, choosing to continue to work on 2.x. It’s almost as if the upgrade was forced.

On a more positive note, I still love Mint itself! The new graphics are a welcome change, and I still love the Junior Mint integration. The graphs are neat, especially as they are pure CSS and not SVG, and therefore no need for an additional plugin.

I was not complaining. Fair enough guys. I’ve been reviewing the whole idea of going to v2. Shaun I admire your work and I will be disshing out the 19$ for the upgrade. Forums are meant to express our thoughts but after reading all these replies you should be expecting a payment from me very soon.

Cheers everyone.

Andre Gagnon SeaGraph Studios

.. from Montreal (Laval), Quebec, Canada

Third-Party Pepper Developer
Posted on Jan 31, '07 at 01:17 pm

I would say that if Mint 1.x works for you now, there is no reason you can’t stick with it and upgrade gradually later on. If the 3rd party peppers are working for you right now, keep using them. Heck, I just released a pepper for Mint 1 yesterday, so not everything is moving to Mint 2 yet.

In production environments, upgrades are not always done upon first release. You might want to wait out the bugs. Or you might just not need the new features. But later when you decide, “maybe that Bird Feeder pepper might be nice for this one site”, then you can justify the upgrade.

For my part, I purchased Mint in Dec 2005 and I only run the one site as a hobby site. But I understand how it can add up. These costs are part of the reason why I never made more than one hobby site. Personally I think the grandfather period should be 30 days rather than since Jan 1.

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